Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, where we dive into strategies that drive real business growth. I’m your host, Kerry Curran, and in this episode, The Power of Authenticity: Unlocking Business Growth Through Trust and Transparency, I'm joined by Bob Cargill, Marketing Industry Veteran, Adjunct Professor, Social Media Consultant. 

Bob shares his journey from starting as a copywriter in New York City to becoming an influential marketing consultant, educator, and speaker. With a deep passion for social media, Bob discusses the transformative shifts in marketing, the importance of storytelling, and the role of transparency in building trust with today’s savvy consumers. 

Tune in to hear Bob and I discuss social media, empowering employees as brand advocates, and embracing AI while staying true to the human side of marketing. 

Whether you're a seasoned marketer or looking to sharpen your brand’s edge, this episode is packed with actionable advice to drive business growth in a fast-evolving digital landscape.

Podcast transcript

 Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:00.61)

And welcome, Bob. Thank you for joining us and please introduce yourself and tell us about your extensive background in the space.

Bob Cargill (00:09.243)

Thank you, Kerry. It's a great opportunity to be here on your podcast. I appreciate the invite. So yeah, I have 40 plus years in marketing. How much time do you have? But I started, seriously, I started as a copywriter back in the early 80s in New York City at RCA Direct Marketing and have stayed in the marketing field my whole career, but have had a lot of different jobs. I wrote a book, I think you know, called … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:20.996)

Yeah.

Bob Cargill (00:38.811)

… jobs, 20 lessons, but I've been a copywriter, a creative director, a director of social media, and had my own business in the 90s. And in 2017, I left the corporate world to freelance, to contract, consult, and ended up doing more teaching than any of the above. And so teaching has become almost my full -time gig lately, but I've been president of NEDMA, New England Direct Marketing Association, President of the American Marketing Association of Boston. Do a lot of speaking, consulting, writing, and social media, of course. So I hope that's a fairly good summary. Not too long, not too short. I wanted to get quite a few of the details in there.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:21.828)

Yeah, no, excellent. And we're lucky to have you and grateful for you to share your expertise today. So as you mentioned, you've been in space for a few years. So talk a bit about some of the biggest points of evolution that you've seen over the years or how marketing has really changed and advertising has changed.

Bob Cargill (01:44.153)

It's changed immensely. And I think most of us in the business get it, know that. There's been transformative changes. mean, earth shattering, not really, but to get the point across. I have, again, half of my career was before the internet, the second half, obviously, since the internet and social media. And that was the biggest change, obviously, is when the internet emerged in the late 90s.

We call it performance marketing now. I think it was direct marketing back in the day and I was working on lots of direct mail in my book. call it junk mail on the title page on the cover, not to disparage direct mail, but because I think a lot of people get it when I say junk mail. That was the big thing back in the day. Print, direct mail, and then email once the internet came around and then social media.

One big thing is it's a more level playing field, meaning the consumer is almost in control and it's more of a conversation. It's not the one way top down, interruptive type marketing. It's more two way. And that was a big change for marketers, advertisers, you know, 20 years ago. But honestly, to this day, a lot of them still haven't totally adapted and gotten that point.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:13.316)

Yeah, no, it's great. It sounds like the medium has changed. The importance of storytelling has really kind of stayed the same. You've talked a bit about that, the importance of telling your brand story and representing the brand throughout all of the channels.

Bob Cargill (03:32.453)

Yeah, so all that said is the seismic seismic change in how we market, how we advertise due to the internet, due to social media, despite that huge change, I think marketing has gotten much more exciting and much more engaging, challenging, yes, but we have more opportunities than ever to converse.

And I say, converse, conversation with the customer to tell stories. I'll give you a quick example. And it does show my age in my taste in music, classic rock, REO Speedwagon. You might know that band, Kerry, maybe. But do you know the lead singer, Kevin Cronin, the lead singer of REO Speedwagon? They are still touring.

Impersonate a classic rock fan, a music fan concerts I love going to and I saw them way back in the day and I saw him last summer at the Boston Garden. He performed solo with a few other artists and I follow him on social media. I should say them, but he's his spokesperson and he tells stories regularly about where they are playing in concert, about the town, the city, about their travels, about his family life.

That's how you do it. You tell stories so that people get to know you as a brand or a business, in his case, as a rock star.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:06.148)

Yeah, no, that's so true. It's because we keep talking about building that audience relationship, that customer relationship and storytelling. And that's a great example of doing it because he's going to stay top of mind. REO Speedwagon will stay top of mind. Now, the next time you're like on your Apple playlist and what should I listen to or Spotify, it keeps him top of mind. And I think that's an area we've talked about where social gives that platform for brands to build those relationships. I know you talked about how social gives the opportunity to kind of connect better and dig deeper into customer connections. Wanna talk a bit about … 

Bob Cargill (05:48.251)

Well, again, you, he's a good example. They are a good example. But that said, there are more opportunities, but I think I mentioned it is challenging as well. So you have to be on, you know, virtually 24 seven and I don't mean literally, but it is often as possible a brand business to stay on top of mind out of sight out of mind and and because there's so much attention, so much competition for attention. We have to shout it louder than ever from the rooftops. We have to be ubiquitous. We have to be frequent in our communications and spread ourselves thin to a degree because our audience is scattered. Sure, once we find where our audience for the most part hangs out, that's where we focus. But sometimes we don't know and sometimes they're moving targets.

Yeah, it's more important than ever to be telling your stories, sharing your brand and promoting your business, your products, your services, etc.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:58.47)

Right, definitely. And I know you're very passionate about sharing your activities, especially your teaching and your book across your social profile. Then go to the Selfie King. Talk about the importance and the impact that has or for brands that want to kind of follow.

Bob Cargill (07:22.319)

The brands, could you repeat the tail end of that question? Can brands that want your … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:26.726)

Sure. Why that's so important to incorporate the sharing of your content and your brand, helping build that within the corporate culture or sharing that storytelling for brands.

Bob Cargill (07:42.787)

Yes, exactly. So like I say, there's a lot of competition for attention, for eyeballs, for people's time, because people are busier than ever and people have more choices, more options than ever in terms of what to do with their time. So the more conspicuous you are in your presence, the better. And you're putting yourself out there across social media, but also obviously in person, events, et cetera, et cetera.

People get to know you. So back in the day, early in my career, there was someone by the name of Walter Cronkite. You may know the name and remember, and he was an anchor person. He was listened to and tuned into daily by television viewers. We had few sources for our news, for our information. I'm using him as an example.

He was referred to as the most trusted man in America. So I joke, but there's not a lot of people you can trust nowadays. I joke. So the way you earn trust, marketers, brands, businesses, advertisers, know the customer has to trust you. And I said earlier, the customer's in charge. So you have to yield to your audience and make sure you are there for them. not your, be transparent.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:49.67)

Yeah.

Bob Cargill (09:11.343)

Be who you are on a daily basis. They get to know you, they get to trust you. The more likely they'll be to buy from you when the opportunity arises.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:21.018)

Right, yeah, and I think that's a brilliant recommendation. And I know you've talked a bit about when building for brands, building trust that the employees, especially the CEO, like should be involved in that. So talk a bit about your recommendation for making that part of the corporate culture so that employees are sharing the brand message and living the brand message that they're sharing online.

Bob Cargill (09:50.611)

Yeah, unfortunately a lot. So it's top down in terms of culture generally. I did a lot of jobs and I've worked at a lot of agencies and on the client side and in working with those agencies worked with hundreds of clients. So I've seen business inside and out and I've consulted to businesses with regard to social media. The C-suite, if you will, senior level people have to understand it, get support in order to have that corporate culture trickle down appropriately. And the corporate culture has to be a more open, inclusive, supportive, empowering environment. And then your employees can advocate for you on behalf of the brand, on behalf of the business, the products, the services. So you educate them, you arm them with the tools, the techniques, the strategies and allow them, if not encourage and even reward them for putting themselves out there on behalf of their employer. So their voices exponentially increase the reach of your company, the C-suite, this is what they believe in, get the word out, branding, marketing, sales, boom.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:55.536)

Mm-hmm.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:09.092)

Yep. Yep. Yeah. And liberating your employees to be influencers for your company, using their audiences to share when they're passionate about it in an authentic way. I think that's important, yeah.

Bob Cargill (11:24.057)

I love that word liberate. Yes, exactly. It's not the 1980s anymore. Sorry, know, our old marketing ways can't come to the phone. Neither can the way we manage. And it's so important to have that corporate culture that's, like I say, inclusive, empowering, such that everyone believes they have a piece of the business, whether they do or don't.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:48.996)

Right, right. No, it's definitely, you and your employees should be the face of your organization as well, and especially the leadership. So talk a bit about, you know, as evolution comes, AI has become a big part of social and content strategies. Like, what are you hearing or recommending to students and marketers that are asking about how to incorporate AI?

Bob Cargill (12:15.685)

Yeah, artificial intelligence we can't ignore. And what I've seen already is almost all people like they look the other way when social media emerged and back further the internet in general. We can't bury our heads in the sand, and poo poo it and run away from it. We have to embrace it. And so I mentioned teaching is a big thing of mine. teach at three different universities in Boston. Mass College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences, Northeastern University and Suffolk University. Love, love, love what I do. And AI is something that I try to incorporate into my teaching because my teaching is social media marketing, digital error skills, and we can't say this is not a reality. It clearly is. All that said, I don't believe in automating everything. I do not believe in relying on AI, but I do believe in knowing how to use it because the people who are afraid of their jobs don't have to be afraid if they know how to use AI. AI is not going to replace them. It's going to replace people who don't know how to use AI. You need to at least understand it, know how to use it, because it's probably going to be part of your job in some way, somehow in many cases.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:35.94)

Mm-hmm. Right, right. And so it's there to build efficiency, but I agree, you need that human part of it. And I already see it in social posts and see it called out in other social posts when it's very clear that what the content people are sharing has been just completely cut and paste from ChatGPT.

Bob Cargill (14:00.347)

Boom, Kerry, and what I've heard and I strongly believe other people have said it, so I'm not saying I own this statement, but if you, the more personable, the more personal we can be as brands and businesses, as individuals, probably the better going forward. It's always been important, but in order to stand out among that clutter of generic content that's being put out there, thanks to people knowing how to use AI so well, they're automating. What separates, obviously, the human content from machine -generated content is our personality, is not just a pulse we need to show, we have a personality as brands.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:45.668)

Yeah, no, it goes back to your original point of authenticity and being true to the brand and the voice and not an automated machine. So I definitely agree with that. I know to put you on the spot a bit, what are your students asking or talking about when they join your class? Do they say why they're interested in marketing or like what are some of the common themes that they're asking?

Bob Cargill (15:17.925)

That's a great question, Kerry. And I have to think for a moment, but you know, my wheels are always turning. They want to know, so they know social media, they have a general impression of marketing and advertising, but obviously not the inner workings of an agency or what kind of jobs to get in the field, all the different jobs that are available.

I try to give them a lot of real world examples of brands and businesses, what is an advertising campaign, what goes into it. And again, the size and scope of the team that works behind the scenes because again, I was a copywriter back in the day, you know, but, you know, that's just one small, frankly, role on the team.

And that was minus all the technology. You can go into marketing now and just be behind the scenes with the analytics and knowing the tools. And then there's people in front of the camera that are still writers. We haven't all been replaced by a chat GPT yet. So, your practical skills and knowledge, yeah, they all know TikTok, but do they know how to use it for business? They, you know, …

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:19.856)

Yep. Yep. 

Bob Cargill (16:34.693)

Frankly, a lot of them are a little reluctant to put themselves on camera. And so I do stress presentations and videos and getting behind a microphone because basic communication skills are still more important than … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:48.73)

Yeah. No, I agree. No, thank you. I appreciate that answer because it's, they're our future teams, you know, once they're out of college. So I'm just curious what they're thinking about. And so again, I know you've worked with a lot of brands and have a ton of depth of experience, but what are your key tips that you share for brands that want to be successful today?

Bob Cargill (17:17.839)

Well, I may have already included it, but I don't know if I should use this word. I think I use this word once, transparency. Don't try to flim flam is an old school term that a lot of the younger folks wouldn't know, but don't try to fool people. Don't try to pull the wool over people's eyes because again, consumers are very, very savvy and especially the younger generation. So keep it real. And frankly, the more real the better.

And frankly, that's in the long run, easier. I think the less staged, the less choreographed, the less produced something is, the more believable it is. So find a voice and ideally voices at your company and unleash them and power them and don't think anybody has to be perfect.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:50.96)

Yeah.

Bob Cargill (18:11.129)

Because in this day and age, everything's moving so fast. My wife knows I use this term all the time. I say it's just a blip because we, our attention spans are short. We don't remember a lot because we have so much coming at us. So it's really putting ourselves out there as real people. And that's most believable, most trusted. And it's easier than ever in this day and age because there's so much we don't trust and can't believe. So just … 

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:25.029)

Yeah, yep.

Bob Cargill (18:40.943)

Just be nice!

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:42.084)

Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. And it's so true. Be authentic, be transparent and honest. I think that's to your point. 

Bob Cargill (18:50.779)

Dale Carnegie years ago, way, back, before my time even, wrote a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People. that, now, again, with all this technology, you still know how to, you still have to know how to do that. Leverage technology in order to win friends and influence people, but that winning friends and influencing people is the human side of the brand. It's who we are as people and people do business with people.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:21.722)

Yeah, absolutely. And it's the relationships that always come down to, so agree. Well, thank you, Bob. This was tremendous. I always appreciate your insight and advice. So thank you so much for sharing that with us today. And thank you for joining us.

Bob Cargill (19:39.855)

Kerry, thank you so much for the invite, the opportunity. It's been great to chat with you today.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:44.528)

Thank you, you too.