In this episode of Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, titled "Prioritizing DEI&B in Your Business Strategy: A Core Pillar for Sustainable Revenue Growth," host Kerry Curran sits down with Kerel Cooper, CMO at GumGum, host of The Minority Report Podcast, and President of Advertising at Group Black, to explore the transformative impact of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEI&B) on business growth.

Kerel, a seasoned industry leader, explains how diverse perspectives not only drive authentic engagement with multicultural audiences but also strengthen brand messaging and open new pathways to revenue. He discusses why DEI&B should be an integral part of a company's core business strategy—not a fleeting trend—sharing practical insights on leveraging DEI&B to build a truly inclusive brand that resonates with today's consumers. This episode reveals why DEI&B is more than a social initiative; it’s a vital growth lever for forward-thinking companies.

Podcast transcript

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:01.658)

And welcome, Kerel, please introduce yourself and tell us about your background and expertise.

Kerel Cooper (00:06.914)

Sure, thanks, Kerry. I appreciate it and look forward to the conversation. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Karel Cooper, CMO at GumGum. If you are unfamiliar with GumGum, we offer a digital advertising platform that helps brands connect with consumers in the right mindset by leveraging our contextual intelligence technology as well as our creative services.

I've been in ad tech and mar tech for about 25 years now, holding various roles at publishers and tech companies, from ad operations to account management, president of advertising, and now CMO at GumGum.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:52.616)

Excellent. Well, thank you, CrowdWorks. Excited to have you here today. I know we were first connected because it was noted that there was a huge decrease in both ESG and DEI content at advertising week last month or earlier this month. And it was such an important point. I think we both saw the importance of…

Kerel Cooper (01:07.118)

Mm-hmm.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:20.53)

….having more diverse panels. was two this year down from eight last year. And so we wanted to kind of get together and talk about the importance of DEI and ESG in our industry, in the advertising space, in the benefits it brings. With that, I wanted to ask, were you surprised when you saw that decrease year over year?

Kerel Cooper (01:47.407)

Unfortunately, I was not surprised. The reason why I was not surprised is because I think we've seen, unfortunately, this sort of slow shift and lack of focus on diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging over the last couple of years. We've seen a number of groups pop up that are focused on pressuring brands.

From moving away from that there's been a number of notable brands over the last year that have stopped with their DEI initiative. So unfortunately it has not been a surprise to me, although every time I do see these types of stats of, you know, at big events, less topic, less focus on DEI, it is an interesting take.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:46.406)

Definitely. And yeah, we're seeing that across the board at agencies and brands. I think as budgets get tight and cuts need to be made, there's a perception that that's something. Yeah. With a pipe.

Kerel Cooper (02:55.213)

Yeah right, which that to me, that's the key indicator that DIB was never a part of your strategy is if when, when times get tough and you need to make certain cuts, if that's the first thing that goes to me, that's a proof point that it never really was that important or part of your organization's overall strategy.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:22.514)

You're right. It's like it was a trend coming out of 2020 and everyone jumped on the trend and now it's a trend they don't have to pay attention to anymore. But to your point, it should be embedded in the culture and probably wasn't done right to begin with or to your point, part of the core operations. So definitely, you know, we've talked about the importance of just the different perspectives and bringing that to the business, especially in advertising when you're responsible for getting messages out on behalf of brands. So talk a bit from your experience and perspective, like where do you see the importance of diverse perspectives?

Kerel Cooper (04:11.309)

Yeah, so first, let's start with just looking at the numbers because I like to talk about this purely from a business perspective because I think that that's where I mean, at the end of the day, we are all in an industry and we all run businesses. So revenue is important, right? Let's not let's not kid around and and and and you know, just sort of gloss over that, right?

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:32.946)

Yes.

Kerel Cooper (04:39.407)

So if you think about it from a business perspective and if you're a brand, right, I'll give you two stats from two very large groups specifically here in the US, right? The black American buying power is projected to be something like $1.8 trillion this year, right? The Hispanic population continues to grow and their projected buying power is $2.4 trillion.

Right? So you are talking, you know, over, you know, three, four trillion dollars just from two specific groups. Right? Why as a brand, why wouldn't you want to capitalize on that? Why wouldn't you want to figure out how you get a slice of that buying and spending power? Right? So if you, if you talk about it purely from, you know, a business perspective there there's a huge opportunity that exists and I don't care what new products you're creating or what new strategy or positioning you want there is no bigger greater opportunity than capitalizing marketing to building relationships and sustainable relationships with diverse consumers of different groups. And I just gave you the black number, the Hispanic number, but you can probably look at the Asian number and other groups as well too. So there's a huge opportunity there. There's also plenty of stats out there that show that companies with diverse workforces, companies with ..

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:18.876)

Yeah.

Kerel Cooper (06:33.009)

… female leaders at the C suite or on their boards perform better. There are plenty of stats out there. So from that perspective to, there's a huge opportunity and regardless of what we are seeing today in terms of some of the trends away from diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, I still think it is the future of business because the population overall

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:38.77)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Kerel Cooper (07:01.495)

is changing and moving in that direction.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:04.388)

No, I definitely agree. you're so spot on about the diverse perspectives, whether it's from a race or heritage perspective or a background perspective. And we were talking about its physical disabilities, it's gender orientation, it's gender identity, it's sexual orientation. It's any, and I love that you pointed out that at GumGum, they say D, E, I, and B, that belonging. so

Kerel Cooper (07:33.318)

Hehe.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:33.734)

Not only is it creating that safe space within your organization so that everyone can bring their perspective, their unique value to the conversation, to expand perspectives, to think about new ideas or new ways to speak to or depict a brand ad or to bring in that sensitivity of like, wait a minute, like that actually might not land well.

Yet to your point, it needs to be ingrained into the company culture and part of the investment. And there are those financial benefits. I mean, of course, we all want to drive revenue. That's what businesses are there for.

Kerel Cooper (08:23.247)

Yeah, and if you're a company and you're doing diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging the right way, it is ingrained into what you do day to day. It is a part of your strategy when you look at policies, programs, the practices that you have, and how you are promoting inclusivity and inequitable environment for everyone writing you just named a number of of different groups and that's why for every

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:58.364)

Yeah, everyone. And I think too, it's one thing that we add to that is respect and trust. You know, I'd mentioned I've been the only female on executive boards and C-suite teams. And it is like, are you respecting all of the opinions in the room equally? Or are you giving that, is there a lens because of how they're different from you? And so I think that's that's, you know, some of those like more nuanced challenges there. One thing I'd mentioned is that years ago, I did an event with Google on DNI and one of you know, of course, we covered race and identity and other, you know, to your point, like more prominent diversity.

I guess, identifications. And one of the important things they brought up was economic background and how, you know, at the time they were making a point of hiring students from the city colleges and universities because with the increased cost of college and university tuition, you know, the elite colleges don't always equate to the smartest person. It really, you know, points to …

Kerel Cooper (09:59.035)

Mm-hmm.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:26.2)

… whose parents were able to get them there or pay for them to get there. And then all of those other lists that we kind of went through play into that. And I bring that up only because I think it's a lesser, at least from my perspective, a lesser recognized point of or source of diverse perspectives and background to want to just broaden it beyond so people understand we're not just talking about race and heritage. It's broader.

Kerel Cooper (10:56.84)

Yeah, I think it's a good point. And I think that's why you've seen companies, some companies over the last few years, start to really think about their requirements for job applicants, right? And some organizations now, depending on the role, don't even require a four-year degree, right? And I think that that speaks to that because you want to open up

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:09.48)

Mm-hmm. Right, right…..

Kerel Cooper (11:24.124)

the pool of candidates is as wide as you can. You wanna give people of all sort of backgrounds and situations the opportunity for that. Now, again, there are some jobs that do require degrees, certifications, all those sorts of things, but yeah, exactly, exactly. But in some cases, they don't, right? And I think we're actually,

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:42.616)

Yeah, technical backgrounds.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:51.346)

Mm-hmm.

Kerel Cooper (11:53.212)

What's very interesting about the educational system, especially colleges and universities, is that as we continue to advance with technology, it will be interesting to see in the future which types of roles you really do need to go to a four-year university for versus the ones you don't anymore.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:02.076)

Right.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:15.526)

Right, right. Now that's a really good and valid point. Also investments in I know I live near Boston College and they just started a school for first-generation college students. It's a two-year, two-year program that then they can matriculate to Boston College. And to your point, I think there's so many different ways to get there and to include different voices, and …

Kerel Cooper (12:31.059)

Hmm

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:45.468)

… help people find their strengths in the right role. And if you're looking at it from a very narrow lens, you're not gonna find that diversity. Yeah. And so I know you've shared that you have a podcast that covers a lot of these topics. Talk about the kind of what inspired you and your experiences in your own career in life that kind of expired to give that voice as well.

Kerel Cooper (12:54.726)

Absolutely.

Kerel Cooper (13:11.691)

Yeah, so back in 2018, a buddy of mine, Eric Rickerton, and I started the Minority Report podcast. The reason why we started the podcast as two men of color in the advertising and marketing space, we would often go to events and conferences, and we would be either the only two men of color there or very few, right?

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:27.944)

Mm-hmm.

Kerel Cooper (13:38.484)

And then we would see less of us, less representation on stage at these events. And so the two of us basically said, you know, instead of just sitting around complaining about it, let's just do something about it. What we decided to do was create our own platform, which is the Minority Report Podcast, which focuses on highlighting people of diverse backgrounds who are leaders across business, media, and technology.

The podcast is really a place for people to tell their story, their background, their upbringing, how they got into the industry that they're in, and any advice for anyone listening. It's really a podcast to get to know people. And our goal with it is to create the largest catalog of content of diverse leaders.

Is something that people can reference because he and I, again, as two men of color coming up in this industry, didn't have or see many people, there were a few, but we didn't see many people who look like us in those executive C-suite positions that we can point to and say, I see someone that looks like me, I can also do this. And so this catalog is here.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:41.544)

Mm-hmm.

Kerel Cooper (14:59.86)

So anyone can find someone and listen to their journey that they connect with. And we are closing in on 180 episodes at this point. And it's been a fantastic journey doing this podcast. We've met a lot of great people. People have shared their stories on the podcast. And we've received a lot of great feedback from the industry about the work that we've done with it.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:28.488)

Excellent. Well, thank you for giving that voice and sharing your voice in that way. So when we think about what brands, whether it's the agencies, the tech companies, or consumer B2B brands, what can companies do better? What should they be thinking about as we're getting closer to 2025? What changes do you recommend?

Kerel Cooper (15:51.572)

Yeah, so again, I would say think about it from a business perspective, right? Where does the opportunity exist for you to grow? And if you think about it from that perspective, going back to the stats I raised earlier, think about what your consumer base looks like, what they want and what you offer to them, and how you market to them. That's one. The other is looking at your staff.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:57.352)

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Kerel Cooper (16:20.77)

Right, and looking at the numbers and the breakdown of diversity within your organization. And is there room for improvement? I would bet that the majority of the folks listening to this, the answer would be yes, there is room for improvement. There's room for all of us to improve in that area. And the reason why that's important is because we consistently see brands make mistakes from an advertising and marketing perspective.

Right? And the majority of those mistakes can be traced back to who is in the room making the decisions, signing off, and providing feedback on specific campaigns. And it clearly shows that the room is not diverse enough. The opinions and the feedback that you're getting from diverse individuals are just not there.

So those would be two things I'd recommend. The third thing I would also recommend is also internally, going back to DIB, the inclusion piece, and the belonging piece and asking the question, do your employees feel included in the organization? Do they feel a sense of belonging, right? And what are the things, the tactics, the strategies that you could take as an organization to …

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:23.143)

Mm-hmm.

Kerel Cooper (17:41.503)

… improve that, right? So those would be the top three things I would recommend as it relates to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:50.93)

Yeah, and I will reiterate the importance of adding belonging to that because to your point, you can't just hire a more diverse team, the respect in creating that culture of belonging so that they do feel comfortable sharing their voice and speaking up when something doesn't feel right is equally important. And so are there other kind of ...

Kerel Cooper (18:00.408)

Yes, correct.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:18.376)

… recommendations, experiences that you think would be valuable to share with the audience today.

Kerel Cooper (18:23.961)

Yeah, what I would say is, that this is a lesson learned for me just from earlier in my career. If you are, if you are, you know, a junior employee, actually not even a junior employee, any employee speak up in your organization. I think that's super important. If you don't feel that sense of belonging or inclusion.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:41.266)

Yeah.

Kerel Cooper (18:48.922)

Speak up in your organization in a way that is productive to help move the conversation forward, right? Don't sit back and wait for the executive team or the people team to implement something, bring something to the table. And I would say, you know, if I could go back and give myself, my younger self advice, that would be the advice earlier in my career that I would give myself. I have no problem doing that now.

But early in my career, that's what I would say because you could be sitting on a great idea. You could point out something that maybe the executive team or the people team is not aware of to help move the conversation, and move these initiatives forward within your organization. So speaking up, and providing constructive feedback and recommendations I think is super important for all employees to take on.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:46.097)

Yeah, definitely. Well, this has been a great conversation. Thank you, Coral, for sharing your perspective and experience. And I think there's a lot of good takeaways here. So I'm so grateful you're able to join us today. And I look forward to speaking with you again in the future. So thank you.

Kerel Cooper (20:07.374)

Thank you, Kerry. I really appreciate it.