Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast, the ultimate resource for business leaders eager to skyrocket their company's growth!

In this episode, “Breaking Through the Clutter: The Power of Creativity in Marketing for Business Growth,” host Kerry Curran sits down with industry veteran Faye Doyle. They dive into the critical role of creativity in marketing and how companies can stand out in a crowded marketplace. Faye shares practical strategies for integrating creativity into your marketing efforts while balancing short-term performance with long-term brand building.

Join us for an enlightening conversation with Faye as we explore how to break through the noise and drive sustainable business growth. Let's go!

Podcast transcript

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:00.472)

And welcome, Faye. Please tell us a bit about yourself and your extensive experience in marketing.

Faye Doyle (00:09.106)

Thank you, Kerry, for having me. So excited to be here. My background spans over 20 years in ad agencies, both large and boutique, in mostly Boston, but also a bit of New York. I also have some corporate marketing experience in the B2B space, as well as in performance marketing. So a little bit of a variety, which is nice.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:33.176)

Excellent. I know you've worked with a number of different brands and verticals and business challenges. So I'm excited to tap into your wealth of knowledge today. So I know we've talked about a number of topics, but from the top, what do you recommend for a company that's focused on building their brand awareness, but also tying it to revenue and brand growth?

Faye Doyle (00:57.906)

It's such a good question and if you're a marketer, you're probably waking up every day and asking yourself that very question. My focus would be the use of creativity. So it's crucial for brand awareness because you need to be able to break through the noise, capture consumers' attention, make sure that anything that you're communicating to them is memorable.

So that they can really, you know, when it comes time to make a purchase, they're keeping you top of mind. So creativity, I would say, is the crucial component or ingredient to that.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:33.016)

Yeah, and creativity is not just a task or initiative. So how can companies really build creativity into their culture and process to make their marketing stand out?

Faye Doyle (01:44.818)

Well, I think the first and foremost thing is that there needs to be internal alignment. If there are differing opinions on what the brand stands for, who the brand is, and how the brand is represented, you're not going to be able to get that cohesive and kind of breakthrough, memorable branding opportunity. So internal alignment is absolutely key for that.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:13.528)

Yep, and so getting that internal buy-in, like how have you done that? Because I know there's always a lot of internal different opinions and stakeholders and egos.

Faye Doyle (02:28.594)

Yeah, there's a lot. Everybody has different priorities. I think branding can mean different things to different internal stakeholders. And then how that actually comes to life could mean different things to different people. Trust is really, at the end of the day, what this is all about. So once there is alignment, it's trusting the marketing team to be able to bring that to life in an effective way.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:36.952)

Mm -hmm.

Faye Doyle (02:53.874)

But also give some room to try different tactics and see what works. And even more importantly, what doesn't work. You can scale the things that work and you can sense things that aren't. And that over time gives you a focus. It's just constant. And to think about it as almost constant optimization of your marketing strategies and tactics.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (03:17.272)

Yeah, and do you find that when you kind of bring the stakeholders along or involve them, it's a little bit easier to get them kind of their buy-in or?

Faye Doyle (03:28.21)

It's, I mean, it's crucial. That is an absolute must. No one likes to be surprised. Everybody would like to participate and influence the direction of where the brand is going to go. And so just making sure that along the way, those stakeholders have an opportunity to react and provide input and then see their reactions and input be reflected in the next iteration.

At the end of the day, everybody's going to be really excited about what was brought to life because everybody had a hand in it.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:05.784)

Yeah, they just want to be heard and be part of the process. Now that makes a lot of sense. I'm sure that's easier said than done, but totally get that. So, you know, as you're talking to brands today, and I know we've talked a bit about this, it seems like there's, you know, a lot of focus on short-term performance and driving sales as quickly as possible, but there's still the need for the long -term.

Faye Doyle (04:09.01)

Exactly. Yeah.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:35.16)

Brand building and really the ultimate opportunity is to parallel path the two, but that's not always easy. But talk about your kind of perspective on the balance between the longer term initiatives and the shorter term.

Faye Doyle (04:53.138)

It's so tricky. I believe that there needs to be an integration of both top of funnel brand awareness communication as well as mid and bottom funnel. Pure integration. I don't think one works without the other.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:10.776)

Yeah.

Faye Doyle (05:12.69)

I think in performance marketing, we're really focused on quick sales. But if you don't have a brand that you're building along the way, you're going to hit some diminishing returns with what you're putting out into the market and what you're expecting consumers to take action on. So sustainable growth requires a balance of both. And that will help you maintain their sales momentum and create loyalty and repeat and retention.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (05:17.464)

Yeah. I think about that a lot when I get to say a social ad that's just promoting discounts, you know, 60 % off for brands that I've never heard of or had any relationships to. And it's like, I don't even know, like you're, you're already negotiating against yourself offering me, you know, that's not your brand and value prop if you're just going out of the gates with a discount. So I get it. I get it. But at the same time, like you're saying, it's that …

Faye Doyle (05:56.689)

Yeah, exactly.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:07.608)

… companies and brands are just, there's a huge focus on trying to drive those sales and getting brands and I know your clients to see that and integrate or invest in the upper funnel and the branding. So how do you convince a skeptical CFO or executive team about the value of that long-term investment?

Faye Doyle (06:34.162)

Well, I've never met a CFO that isn't skeptical. Let's start there. And that's for very good reason. I think in marketing, we need to make sure that we're justifying the investment. And in order for us to do that, we need to be providing everybody clear metrics that everyone, key stakeholders, but most especially the CFO, can...

Kerry Curran, RBMA (06:36.44)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Faye Doyle (07:01.106)

… on and say … at the end of this, we're going to agree whether this was successful or not based on these things. And that's up to, it's almost like the marketing team needs to market their marketing plan. You have to show how you're measuring success, what the importance is about increasing brand awareness, and make sure that you've got really tangible metrics. And we started here with brand awareness, we're going to go here.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:05.944)

Yeah, okay.

Faye Doyle (07:29.074)

Or at least that's our goal and here's what our tactics are to be able to deliver on that goal. But making sure that there's tangible, quantifiable results that are associated with any sort of marketing activity you're doing. And then also doing some education on why some of this stuff is important. Because a lot of these tactics sometimes don't have an immediate return. And...

Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:42.872)

Mm-hmm. Right, right.

Faye Doyle (07:53.234)

So it's not just saying here's what we're doing and here's how we're measuring it, it's also explaining why these things are important.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:01.112)

Yeah, and so kind of aligning the marketing tactics with the results and the customer journey and funnel.

Faye Doyle (08:09.33)

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:10.744)

Yeah. And so how do you have an approach or recommendations for like showing metrics of success for kind of those upper funnel branding initiatives that can't necessarily, that can't be measured as much as a paid search click.

Faye Doyle (08:30.93)

Yeah, I mean, again, going back to the education context, the reasons why certain strategies and tactics are what the role is of a lot of those tactics and making sure that everybody is informed and that you're being transparent, that's vital.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (08:51.544)

Yeah.

Faye Doyle (08:52.21)

Always need to be explaining the why behind our strategies. We don't just create things and say, here's what we're going to do and here are the inputs that went into it. It really helps to set the level on why this type of approach is going to be important for the business. So yeah, I think balancing those long -term efforts with quick wins will help kind of prove out the immediate impact.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:18.808)

Yeah, no, that's, it's so important. And I know I think about that a lot, like just cause you can't tie it to a specific sale doesn't mean it didn't, that initiative didn't, you know, impact the customer and drive that.

Faye Doyle (09:32.85)

Exactly.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (09:34.616)

So I know we talked a bit about the importance of getting the buy-in, but talk a bit more about the importance of that brand, creative brand identity to break through the clutter.

Faye Doyle (09:51.122)

Yeah, I mean, it's such a great question. And as we know, many different brands have different interpretations of how they convey themselves. You know, I think integration across every single touch point is absolutely crucial. And it's not just consumer facing communication. It's also internal communication, employee engagement.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:07.704)

Mm-hmm.

Faye Doyle (10:21.234)

You know, making sure that any sort of earned media or press is, you know, that any activity that we're generating earned media from is kind of consistent with the values and the mission and vision for the brand. So across all the funnel, they all have to work together. And in many cases, they all need to be firing and working together.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:48.024)

Yeah. And I know we talked about just those fundamentals and how just there's kind of a lack of appreciation for the importance of that in the process. Like have you seen, have you seen that turning around at all?

Faye Doyle (11:04.626)

You know, it's, I feel like this is kind of a pendulum swing. You know, I mean, there is a reason why marketing, you know, it's, sounds silly to say, but there is a reason why marketing has existed for many, many years and it works. It is required, in order to achieve that sustainable growth. And there are fundamental building blocks like the funnel …

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:21.368)

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Faye Doyle (11:34.642)

… that we can't walk away from. We're always challenged to reinvent and innovate, but there's also a reason why the fundamentals are what they are, and that's your base. So, yeah, always have to go back to that. And once that's checked off, go and innovate and reinvent and try something different all day long.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (11:48.664)

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:00.056)

Yeah, no, that's, it's so important again, to get like you're saying, it's just, there's a lot of, there's a lot of noise out there and creating that, that brand and that experience. Great. And I know you're talking to, you have a lot of clients and you're talking to a lot of brands. Are there any other keys like business challenges or just growth or marketing challenges that you're hearing frequently?

Faye Doyle (12:25.842)

I mean, a lot of it is very consistent with what we've been hearing over the last 10 or so years. Consumer sentiment when it comes to the economy, a cluttered marketplace, the pressure for marketers to deliver short-term results in a significant way.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:42.52)

Yeah.

Faye Doyle (12:52.146)

The good old data analysis paralysis problem persists. And in fact, I think the data analysis paralysis takes our attention away from what the true goal needs to be. And we could spend a lot of time swimming in data and trying to figure it out when sometimes it's helpful to just, you know …

Kerry Curran, RBMA (12:57.4)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Right.

Faye Doyle (13:20.338)

… pull out of the numbers, look at things at a more broad level, and then make an informed decision on how to proceed. It doesn't need to be perfect. It needs to be good and ideally great. But it needs to also be consistent too in terms of presenting yourself to a consumer.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:22.52)

Right.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (13:42.36)

Yeah, no, I agree. I've seen brands so focused on the metrics that they turned off upper funnel and mid funnel initiatives because they couldn't prove the incrementality. And to your point, it's like, you need to be doing that, building that engagement with your target audience. And while you're investing in the lower funnel, kind of more quick wins. And I think that's just the most important aspect of integration and marketing today, but I know that's not always the case. Yeah.

Faye Doyle (14:19.634)

Yeah. And you know, going back to the beginning of our conversation, using what you have in front of you with a higher degree of comfort with creativity and expressing the brand in ways that are memorable. Like that's, you know, it's the creativity and the tactics and then how do we measure the impact of that work?

Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:44.76)

Yeah, yeah. What else are you hearing these days?

Faye Doyle (14:50.258)

Good question. I have heard streams from multiple sectors. Cost of goods is rising, of course. Like I said, the economy, inflation, all of that is having a domino effect across every single sector.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:01.304)

Yeah. Yeah.

Faye Doyle (15:18.098)

You know, and consumers are skeptical. I also think this is tough with it being a presidential election year. I'm finding that there are clients that want to kind of just pause and see what happens over the next six months, not invest significantly in any direction because there's so much uncertainty about what's going to unfold in the fall.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:34.776)

I know. Yeah, yeah.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:44.408)

Yeah, but what's your recommendation for those brands or what would be?

Faye Doyle (15:48.274)

It's a good question. I think their concern is valid. I would be concerned about shutting things off completely. And I also think that we as marketers can take an educated and informed bet on what we should be doing in this time of, you know, in this kind of volatile time. So …

Kerry Curran, RBMA (15:53.336)

Yeah.

Faye Doyle (16:17.234)

Because here again, consistency, integration, creativity, consistency.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:20.248)

Yeah, yeah.

Right, right, right. And being out there and to your point of like being consistently out there in a way that helps you stand out, that's going to be valuable in the long run, because it's that things will settle down and you don't want to be left behind or left out of the consumer mindset. So I definitely say that. Yeah.

Faye Doyle (16:43.89)

Exactly. Yep, exactly. That's what they said a lot about during the recession. We had a lot of clients in the 2008 -2009 timeframe saying, what should we be doing? And I stand behind our perspective, which is you have to keep going because that shows brand strength. The second that you pull back, it shows brand weakness, which makes, which kind of ...

Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:50.008)

Yeah.

Faye Doyle (17:10.738)

… exacerbates consumers' own concern.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (17:12.632)

Yeah, right, right. Yeah. No, that makes so much sense. And I know it's, we're old enough to have been through this before and it's, we will get through it. We'll, we'll come out ahead. And I do think we're seeing, I've definitely seen marketers are, you know, taking more of a stance and shouting from the rooftops, the importance of the foundational element of marketing and investing. So I think right now, even though brands are … you know, heavy doubling down on sales and performance that it's two point, the pendulum will swing back hopefully. So you have to be ready. Yeah. And you don't want to have to start from scratch then either. So, yeah. Great. Yeah. So any final thoughts on kind of the importance of integrating your brand awareness and strategy with your overall growth strategy and business goals?

Faye Doyle (17:50.898)

And you gotta be ready for it. Exactly. Exactly.

Faye Doyle (18:08.082)

You know, the only other thing I would say is I have a lot of excitement and energy around new startups, technology, new goods and services for consumers. You know, a lot of...

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:20.92)

Yeah.

Faye Doyle (18:32.242)

… what we talked about, I think back to legacy brands or very established brands. But those new ones that are up and coming, I do think that is going to help consumers have greater choice, which could be a double-edged sword. But ...

Kerry Curran, RBMA (18:46.744)

Yeah.

Faye Doyle (18:51.762)

… If there's something new and different to talk about that's going to benefit the consumer then you know innovation and reinvention are key so I'm really excited to see what's going to be coming up next especially for those startup brands.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:07.704)

Yeah, no, me too. I definitely think, I don't think us marketers are going to be out of jobs. I think there's going to be more, more demand for that human creative aspect. There's only so much that our chat GPT tools can do. So they are great. Yeah. Yeah.

Faye Doyle (19:22.962)

Yeah, there is really, I mean, for all it can do, it has severe limitations. And by the way, humans are the ones that are inputting all of that information to get the output back. So you can't take humans out of it yet.

Kerry Curran, RBMA (19:31.352)

Right, right.

Kerry Curran, RBMA 

Faye, how do you balance long-term brand building with short-term performance marketing?

Faye Doyle

It's about integrating both. One cannot work without the other. Performance marketing, as we know, is focused on those quick hits, that short-term sales impact. But without brand building, you're going to be hitting some diminishing returns. There is going to be a ceiling that your brand will hit. So sustainable growth absolutely requires a balance of both approaches to maintain sales momentum and to create loyalty.

Kerry Curran, RBMA 

Great, thank you.

Kerry Curran, RBMA 

What would you say to a skeptical CFO about the value of long-term brand investment?

Faye Doyle

Such a good question. I expect any CFO to be skeptical. We have to absolutely have clear metrics that are set up that proves out how we're going to be measuring success and make sure that that skeptical CFO is aligned to that. What we don't want to do is implement a campaign or a program and then have metrics that a CFO thinks is not the right level to measure when it comes to investment. So, you know, I also think a skeptical CFO is really helpful for marketing. It helps. It puts some pressure on us in a good way to justify our strategies, be very clear about our intentions and then how we're going to see if it works. So I appreciate that, frankly.

Kerry Curran, RBMA

Mm-hmm. Excellent. Great. Well, thank you, Faye.